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ctown28
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PostSubject: Strategy Mark should use   Mon Aug 21, 2017 9:37 pm

It's no secret that Paul is running the show. If Paul wanted MArk saved, he could make it happen, so Mark should be trying to work with Paul. He should go and make a F2 deal with Paul (Paul doesn't care how many F2 deals he has) and explain to him that he is by himself now and has nobody to work with. If Paul would be able to convince people to vote out Matt, Mark will be in debt, he will never put Paul up and will vote the way Paul tells him to vote right up until F2. The deal is only valid if he stays. Mark would then have to actually honor the deal for at least a few weeks or he would be right back in the same position.

Now if Paul isn't receptive to making a deal like that, you change course on him. You tell him that if he's not willing to work with him, then not only will Mark not vote for Paul at F2, but he will also infect the jury. Elena will vote his way and so will Cody, 2 more people and Paul loses again.

None of this may work, buts its down to go big or go home
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PostSubject: Re: Strategy Mark should use   Mon Aug 21, 2017 11:41 pm

I think Paul is a completely closed door at this point. There is too much danger of Mark teaming up with others to take him out. The jury votes won't matter to him because Elena told him before she left that it is obvious that Paul is the only one playing the game and he has her vote. He also knows that Elena controls Mark so in Paul's mind he has 2 votes locked right now.

Talk about votes might resonate a bit with Josh, Jason and Christmas. He should start talking about jury votes in general, past seasons, what people vote for, etc. Juries respect people who actually make moves for themselves instead of just following "the house." Then he should say that he will never vote for someone who has followed the script of another person the entire season, even though they are the ones winning the comps and voting people out. Then go further and say that he knows that Elena and Cody feel the same way, and that is 3 of the 5 votes needed for someone to win.

Do this for the next couple of days in small groups while he plays pool or chess or whatever. He should even throw in a few things like, people are not even allowed to vote the way they want to even when it doesn't affect the outcome because they are afraid and won't play their OWN game. So they send people to the jury knowing that they are playing the game under someone else's direction.

Tell them he doesn't respect that kind of play and won't vote for those players unless there are 2 of them sitting in the final 2 chairs and I have no choice between the 2. But the only way that happens is if they take a stand in the next couple of weeks before it is too late. And to bolster this argument state that this is the mistake he made in his own game, trying to make everyone else happy instead of playing for himself and taking the safe route over and over.

Comments for Josh: What would your family think of you being dragged around the house on a leash and then sent out as a weapon because the others don't want to look like that on TV? What are they going to say if you get to the end and lose because you didn't think for yourself?

Comments for Jason: What will your wife think if you work hard to win comps, but then don't take your game into your own hands? You are doing the dirty work for others, taking out people who were not against you, and then they are going to clip you because they can't beat you in those final comps. In fact, after I leave who is the next strongest male competitor in the house? You are. Who is the strongest female competitor? Alex is.

Comments to both of them and even Christmas: I know the kind of promises that Paul has made to you guys because those are the same promises he made to me and Elena in the past few weeks, then state them......."if we take out this person, it will be okay...........don't be seen talking to this person because it is sketchy...............don't trust this person because they are shady.............we will steamroll from there because nobody can beat us."

And then point out, they will know when the are the next on the list because they will be used as a pawn first, like Jason was this week. Then they will be told to stop talking to, hanging out with or trusting a certain person, (like Kevin) even though you know that person is not against you. It is divide and conquer. Then when all their personal allies are gone, they go on the block with no votes, but Paul remains completely insulated. So as them "if you are the one sticking your neck out, but he isn't, who are you playing the game for?" When "strong competitor pawns" are needed, does Paul's name come up? No, can't risk it, but there is no problem risking anyone else's, right?

Tell them to think about if they are on the block next week, who will vote to keep them in the house? If there is only 1, then they know they are in trouble for sure. And Matt and Raven will do whatever the HOH tells them, so if they are counting on their votes, they are in trouble too.

Other comments to throw around, nobody is playing so I think I will just vote for who needs it the most like Raven.

Also to Christmas, say things like "I thought you were a real competitor and would never be afraid to make moves in the game, but I guess with the injury your hands are pretty much tied and you have no choice but to follow someone else's game plan. It's too bad because I would have enjoyed seeing Christmas the competitor actually stand up and play the game hard. Good luck, I hope he keeps his promises to you."
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PostSubject: Re: Strategy Mark should use   Tue Aug 22, 2017 12:07 am

Another comment to make to Jason...........

"If I had won the veto and didn't use it, are you sure you would have been the one to stay in the house? You would have needed 4 votes to stay and you would have been on the block against someone who doesn't even TRY to win anything, just sits back and does nothing. Would those people keep a strong competitor in the house or keep the weak one that they can beat any time? Me and Alex would have voted to keep you, but what would the others do? Next week it could be only Alex as a guaranteed vote, but if she is on the block next to you, what happens then? Think about it."
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PostSubject: Re: Strategy Mark should use   Tue Aug 22, 2017 12:23 am

Only problem with all of this is Paul handed out marching orders to Matt and Raven. You guessed it, if Mark is talking to Alex, Jason, or Kevin interrupt it or just put an end to it by staying there.

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PostSubject: Re: Strategy Mark should use   Tue Aug 22, 2017 12:57 am

Naru wrote:
Only problem with all of this is Paul handed out marching orders to Matt and Raven. You guessed it, if Mark is talking to Alex, Jason, or Kevin interrupt it or just put an end to it by staying there.

At this point, why would he care? I would talk about those jury votes right in front of them. I would say there are 3 up for grabs, but only to people to actually play and since nobody is actually playing then it will have to be on a personal level. He doesn't have to get into specifics about Jason or Josh's situation, but just in general about the "follow the leader game" and how he regrets having gone along with it too. Let them run back to tell Paul. Will Paul actually come at him and call him out knowing that those votes are at stake? Will he send out Josh?

That could just be the pivotal point. If he sends Josh to call him out, he should look at Josh and say, "this is what I am talking about. I bet Paul just sent you out here to say all this and call me out so YOU are the one who loses these first 3 votes. Ever wonder why he doesn't do it himself? He is making you stick your neck out instead of his. Who will look like the bully or the fool on TV, you or him?"

If it is Paul that comes at him, then it is easy to blow HIM up. Might not save his own ass, but it just might make some people stop and think for sure.

Stand your ground and say..........."this is exactly what I am talking about. I said those things in front of Matt and Raven because I knew they would run right to Paul to tell him. They wouldn't step up and say anything, they will just hide in the corner and watch the fallout. I also knew that Paul would do 1 of 2 things, send Josh out here to fight his battles for him and shit on his own jury votes or he could come out here to shut it down himself and make me look stupid." And when Paul says he is playing for second place anyway, he can say, "that is a load of shit too because everyone just follows your instructions every week whether it is best for their own game or not. They can't even vote their own mind without being made a target. So you playing for second place is a farce and you know it. Hell I would almost have to vote for you at this point, if it were not for the bullying tactics you have used to shit on people before they leave."

"Stop and think about this, the promises he is making to each of you, he made to me and Elena too"............then use the terminology that they have all heard over and over again. State the signs that they are next on the target list........stop talking to this person............look at the time this person is spending with that person.........once this person is gone, then we can steamroll to the end..............I don't trust anyone but you two...........nobody will see us working together...........Matt and Raven won't ever win anything so we want to keep them to the end............Christmas can't play in the final comps because she is hurt, so we want to keep her to the end............you always get rid of the best competitors to make it easier at the end..................strong pawns are needed to complete the plan, but it can NEVER be Paul............Paul is playing for second so anyone sitting next to him will win the game..............I am only telling you this stuff to help you in the game."

Then at the end tell them he knows he is going to jury this week, but people need to ask themselves if that is what is best for their OWN game or what is best for Paul's game. Is it best for their OWN jury votes or is it best for Paul's jury votes? And next week if their number comes up will they be wishing they had another vote on their side in case they are on the block.

End of discussion.
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PostSubject: Re: Strategy Mark should use   Tue Aug 22, 2017 1:16 am

And if the outburst happens, add this to the mix..............

"Josh you have said you worry about how you are being portrayed in here, and obviously Paul doesn't care about that because he makes you do this stuff even when you really don't want to do it. But think how stupid you look by saving Matt and Raven in this game when Raven is the one who told our group upstairs countless times that first week that you were peeping at her in the shower which is why Cody disliked you so much. I sure wouldn't want to keep someone safe who is making allegations like that in the game and laughing behind your back. What will your family and America think of that?"
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PostSubject: Re: Strategy Mark should use   Tue Aug 22, 2017 1:57 am

Mon 9:02 PM BBT Christmas saying that she won't be there tomorrow.

This could be an opening for more talks with Josh. That being said, personally I don't think Mark has a prayer to stay. Hell Cody had better odds last week with Alex as HOH in my opinion, but the only way is if things blow up and people start comparing notes. Otherwise he is just done.
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PostSubject: Re: Strategy Mark should use   Tue Aug 22, 2017 2:21 am

A blow up would be nice. At least that would be entertaining. You know why people bitched and moaned when Derick played the game? Because he controlled everything. If a fight started he cooled them down. He picked his target and got them out. Don't get it twisted it makes for a good game but people like to see planes get fucked up. Why? Because it is entertaining. This crap of "Target, vote and boot" is just crap!

We know who Paul is targeting. We know they will be back doored. We know they will be voted out. We know what is going to happen and if you know then why watch? I'll tell you why? You want to see ONE thing! JUST! ONE! THING! fuck up his plan and drama ensues but you can't and won't get it unless Paul allows it to happen. DAM! Why can't we get just one thing?

:facepalm:

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PostSubject: Re: Strategy Mark should use   Tue Aug 22, 2017 10:55 pm

Last night after returning from the DR, Christmas suddenly had some pangs of doubt that she screwed up her HOH. She started talking about the possibility that Alex/Jason teaming up with Matt/Raven and they might have Kevin on their side too. She was really trying to articulate to Paul how this was something that could be happening. She mentioned week 1 (she is clearly obsessed with the week she went on the block) and said she doesn't believe that Cody didn't tell Alex who he was putting on the block after he threw the veto to her. She pointed out that Matt also threw it, but maybe Cody told him to, but he really didn't know the reason. She was trying to insinuate that they have been working together ever since or something. Paul entertained her fears for a bit and then said "should I just gun for this HOH then?" She started to say he should, but then said that they need to protect him and make sure that he could compete the next week, blah, blah, blah. He was sure to say that Mark going home this week HAS TO HAPPEN otherwise they are very stupid and she accepted that, but I really think that is where the thought process was going.

Then today Christmas as camera talking before she left for the doctor and said that Paul is okay with coming in second place to her at the finale and that is great with her too.

So at this point, I don't see any cracks for Mark to try to navigate through. He hasn't done anything since veto, but as a fan of the show, he knows that you wait until Tuesday/Wednesday to start a campaign, so I look for him to start once again IF he is going to do anything at all at this point.

The only thing that would save Mark right now is if a conversation is overheard where Paul is blatantly conspiring to take out Josh or Christmas and Josh or Christmas are the ones who overhear it, then talk to Alex. Or, if there is a conversation where he is heard targeting Alex and Jason that is overheard by Alex. Either of these bring Christmas and Alex into a room and shit starts spilling. This is HIGHLY unlikely, but I would love to see Mark stay on Thursday and the only ones who were not in on the plan were Paul, Raven and Matt. So sad when fantasyland is the only entertaining part of the season.
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PostSubject: Re: Strategy Mark should use   Wed Aug 23, 2017 12:59 am

chap5788 wrote:
Naru wrote:
Only problem with all of this is Paul handed out marching orders to Matt and Raven. You guessed it, if Mark is talking to Alex, Jason, or Kevin interrupt it or just put an end to it by staying there.

At this point, why would he care?  I would talk about those jury votes right in front of them.  I would say there are 3 up for grabs, but only to people to actually play and since nobody is actually playing then it will have to be on a personal level.  He doesn't have to get into specifics about Jason or Josh's situation, but just in general about the "follow the leader game" and how he regrets having gone along with it too.  Let them run back to tell Paul.  Will Paul actually come at him and call him out knowing that those votes are at stake?  Will he send out Josh?  

That could just be the pivotal point.  If he sends Josh to call him out, he should look at Josh and say, "this is what I am talking about.  I bet Paul just sent you out here to say all this and call me out so YOU are the one who loses these first 3 votes.  Ever wonder why he doesn't do it himself?  He is making you stick your neck out instead of his.  Who will look like the bully or the fool on TV, you or him?"

If it is Paul that comes at him, then it is easy to blow HIM up.  Might not save his own ass, but it just might make some people stop and think for sure.

Stand your ground and say..........."this is exactly what I am talking about.  I said those things in front of Matt and Raven because I knew they would run right to Paul to tell him.  They wouldn't step up and say anything, they will just hide in the corner and watch the fallout.  I also knew that Paul would do 1 of 2 things, send Josh out here to fight his battles for him and shit on his own jury votes or he could come out here to shut it down himself and make me look stupid."  And when Paul says he is playing for second place anyway, he can say, "that is a load of shit too because everyone just follows your instructions every week whether it is best for their own game or not.  They can't even vote their own mind without being made a target.  So you playing for second place is a farce and you know it.  Hell I would almost have to vote for you at this point, if it were not for the bullying tactics you have used to shit on people before they leave."

"Stop and think about this, the promises he is making to each of you, he made to me and Elena too"............then use the terminology that they have all heard over and over again.  State the signs that they are next on the target list........stop talking to this person............look at the time this person is spending with that person.........once this person is gone, then we can steamroll to the end..............I don't trust anyone but you two...........nobody will see us working together...........Matt and Raven won't ever win anything so we want to keep them to the end............Christmas can't play in the final comps because she is hurt, so we want to keep her to the end............you always get rid of the best competitors to make it easier at the end..................strong pawns are needed to complete the plan, but it can NEVER be Paul............Paul is playing for second so anyone sitting next to him will win the game..............I am only telling you this stuff to help you in the game."

Then at the end tell them he knows he is going to jury this week, but people need to ask themselves if that is what is best for their OWN game or what is best for Paul's game.  Is it best for their OWN jury votes or is it best for Paul's jury votes?  And next week if their number comes up will they be wishing they had another vote on their side in case they are on the block.

End of discussion.

None of this has a chance to happen. Mark doesn't know those words Paul has been telling people, he's been on the outside looking in for a while now. I don't think he ever really talked game with Paul. I would say he doesn't have the balls to do it, but at this point if he had that info he would, nothing to lose.
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PostSubject: Re: Strategy Mark should use   Wed Aug 23, 2017 1:06 am

Ctown, I do agree that Mark doesn't have the backbone to stand up in a chaotic moment to say anything unless he is pushed first. But in most confrontations he has had, he didn't want to make waves because he was afraid of being a target. At this point, that worry is gone. The one time he really stood his ground was with Paul about the bullying when Josh was crying and Paul tried to make it seem like Josh was the victim. If he can find THAT courage, he actually can be very articulate.

Of course in the midst of a call-out session, he will probably back down, but if he would just lose his cool for once and just start spewing things, it could help him, but even if it didn't it causes cracks in the foundation Paul has under him and if I am in that position, THAT is what my goal is if I can't save myself.

He knows the words that Paul has used because he used them on him and Elena for the past 3 weeks. When it was obvious they were on the bottom, he continued to talk to them. He continued to use these same phrases with them and then turned his back on them anyway even though they followed most of what he instructed. So he actually does know the signs that you are on the bottom of the pole.

But at this point, I think he is just going to go out "gracefully" with visions of banging Elena in the jury house.
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PostSubject: Re: Strategy Mark should use   Wed Aug 23, 2017 2:51 am

Mark has began to campaign. He talked to Kevin. He talked to Jason. Now he is talking to Alex. She is being dismissive of his arguments that her and Jason will be the next targets. He did tell her that if Raven or Matt win, they won't go after Josh or Christmas so they need to think of that. She is really not interested in hearing his arguments.

I think what he should do maybe tomorrow morning is go to Christmas and ask her if he forces a tie 3-3 if she will vote to keep him in the house. She will of course ask if he has the 3 votes and who they are. He should then say he doesn't want to divulge who they are or he will lose the votes, he just wants to know if she will break the tie or not. She will probably say that people are telling her it will be unanimous. And he can just smile and say, "well, they are either lying to me or to you, we will see Thursday. I just wanted to see what you were thinking and I didn't want you to be blindsided if it happens because I respect you."

She will go around and try to find anyone who has told him they would vote for him and will find nobody. She gets paranoid easily and when she gets paranoid, she gets really, really aggressive. If she comes at Jason, Alex and Kevin too hard the target list for next week could easily change.

Like I said, I don't see him saving himself, but there needs to be some chaos caused going into the HOH on Thursday.
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PostSubject: Re: Strategy Mark should use   Wed Aug 23, 2017 7:57 am

chap5788 wrote:
Mark has began to campaign.  He talked to Kevin.  He talked to Jason.  Now he is talking to Alex.  She is being dismissive of his arguments that her and Jason will be the next targets.  He did tell her that if Raven or Matt win, they won't go after Josh or Christmas so they need to think of that.  She is really not interested in hearing his arguments.  

I think what he should do maybe tomorrow morning is go to Christmas and ask her if he forces a tie 3-3 if she will vote to keep him in the house.  She will of course ask if he has the 3 votes and who they are.  He should then say he doesn't want to divulge who they are or he will lose the votes, he just wants to know if she will break the tie or not.  She will probably say that people are telling her it will be unanimous.  And he can just smile and say, "well, they are either lying to me or to you, we will see Thursday.  I just wanted to see what you were thinking and I didn't want you to be blindsided if it happens because I respect you."

She will go around and try to find anyone who has told him they would vote for him and will find nobody.  She gets paranoid easily and when she gets paranoid, she gets really, really aggressive.  If she comes at Jason, Alex and Kevin too hard the target list for next week could easily change.

Like I said, I don't see him saving himself, but there needs to be some chaos caused going into the HOH on Thursday.

Agreed!

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PostSubject: Re: Strategy Mark should use   Wed Aug 23, 2017 11:22 am

Well it got close to some chaos erupting last night because Alex came out from talking to Mark and downloaded everything to Paul. She told him Mark said Paul was a floater. Paul was so pissed off that he wanted to go call Mark out, but Alex kept telling him not to do it. What Mark was talking about was Paul being protected by all and directing each HOH. He didn't mean floater in the sense of Matt and Raven, and Alex knew that. I was hoping that he actually would go and call Mark out to have that big blow up so maybe some secrets WOULD come out in the heat of the moment to change things up for the coming weeks.
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PostSubject: Re: Strategy Mark should use   Wed Aug 23, 2017 2:32 pm

chap5788 wrote:
Well it got close to some chaos erupting last night because Alex came out from talking to Mark and downloaded everything to Paul.  She told him Mark said Paul was a floater.  Paul was so pissed off that he wanted to go call Mark out, but Alex kept telling him not to do it.  What Mark was talking about was Paul being protected by all and directing each HOH.  He didn't mean floater in the sense of Matt and Raven, and Alex knew that.  I was hoping that he actually would go and call Mark out to have that big blow up so maybe some secrets WOULD come out in the heat of the moment to change things up for the coming weeks.

Matt and Raven are NOT floaters and calling them so is an insult to those that have ever floated. Paul played a great floater game last season. If Matt and Raven were floaters, they would've been always in the HoH room when Cody and/or Jess had power trying to strategize with them.
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PostSubject: Re: Strategy Mark should use   Wed Aug 23, 2017 2:42 pm

ctown28 wrote:
chap5788 wrote:
Well it got close to some chaos erupting last night because Alex came out from talking to Mark and downloaded everything to Paul.  She told him Mark said Paul was a floater.  Paul was so pissed off that he wanted to go call Mark out, but Alex kept telling him not to do it.  What Mark was talking about was Paul being protected by all and directing each HOH.  He didn't mean floater in the sense of Matt and Raven, and Alex knew that.  I was hoping that he actually would go and call Mark out to have that big blow up so maybe some secrets WOULD come out in the heat of the moment to change things up for the coming weeks.

Matt and Raven are NOT floaters and calling them so is an insult to those that have ever floated.  Paul played a great floater game last season.  If Matt and Raven were floaters, they would've been always in the HoH room when Cody and/or Jess had power trying to strategize with them.

If they are not floaters, what the hell would you call them? Furniture with voting rights?

They suck on the ass of the HOH for sure. When Jess was HOH, they were suddenly nice and talkative with her and Cody. The only reason they didn't live in the HOH room was because Paul told them not to.

Paul is playing the floater game this year also to an extent. He lays out plans for each HOH person or duo and he is insulated and doesn't even want to win HOH's or vetoes anymore.
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PostSubject: Re: Strategy Mark should use   Wed Aug 23, 2017 3:20 pm

chap5788 wrote:
ctown28 wrote:
chap5788 wrote:
Well it got close to some chaos erupting last night because Alex came out from talking to Mark and downloaded everything to Paul.  She told him Mark said Paul was a floater.  Paul was so pissed off that he wanted to go call Mark out, but Alex kept telling him not to do it.  What Mark was talking about was Paul being protected by all and directing each HOH.  He didn't mean floater in the sense of Matt and Raven, and Alex knew that.  I was hoping that he actually would go and call Mark out to have that big blow up so maybe some secrets WOULD come out in the heat of the moment to change things up for the coming weeks.

Matt and Raven are NOT floaters and calling them so is an insult to those that have ever floated.  Paul played a great floater game last season.  If Matt and Raven were floaters, they would've been always in the HoH room when Cody and/or Jess had power trying to strategize with them.

If they are not floaters, what the hell would you call them?  Furniture with voting rights?  

They suck on the ass of the HOH for sure.  When Jess was HOH, they were suddenly nice and talkative with her and Cody.  The only reason they didn't live in the HOH room was because Paul told them not to.  

Paul is playing the floater game this year also to an extent.  He lays out plans for each HOH person or duo and he is insulated and doesn't even want to win HOH's or vetoes anymore.

The proper term is coaster. People have been mislabeling people as floaters for years. Victoria was NOT a floater, she was a coaster. Adam was NOT a floater, he was a coaster. Yes Paul is playing a floater game to a point, he even tried to influence Jess on her HoH
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PostSubject: Re: Strategy Mark should use   Thu Aug 24, 2017 1:30 pm

Well obviously Mark is a dead man walking and a good eviction speech won't change it. And he won't go out taking a low blow shot or anything because it just isn't in him to do it for whatever reason. But what I would LIKE to see him say is something about his vote in jury. If I were in his position, I would say the following:

Shout out to family. Love being on BB. Made new friends and all that fluff. Then this:

I know I am going home tonight. I made a lot of mistakes with my game this season and I have a lot of regrets. My biggest regret is that I didn't play my OWN game and allowed other people to dictate how I played, how I voted and who I could or could not talk to. So many weeks I voted people out of the game that I knew were not targeting me or bad for my game, but it was always "the house" decision and I played right along just like the rest of you. The difference is that I did those things, but ended up here and for all but 2 of you the same thing will happen. But, now I have to vote for a winner on finale night. I am going to be looking for ANYONE to step up and play their OWN game. Win an HOH and put up the targets that are THEIR OWN targets not the target of "the house." Hell even voting the way you want to vote instead of the way "the house" wants you to would be a good start. At this point if I had to vote tonight I wouldn't know what to do because voting for "the house" is not an option and nobody is taking responsibility for the moves being made other than saying it is what the "the house" wants, so apparently NOBODY is playing except "the house." So if this continues, on finale night I think I will just flip a coin while I am in the jury house before I go to vote and that will be my final "house" decision.
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