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chap5788
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PostSubject: Final thoughts   Thu Sep 22, 2016 5:23 am

NICOLE WON!!!!!!!!

Chicken Dance Chicken Dance Chicken Dance Chicken Dance Penguin Penguin Penguin Penguin jumping smilies jumping smilies jumping smilies Happy Dance Happy Dance Happy Dance

I know I will be alone in my celebration, but that's okay.

I think that Paul's downfall in getting the votes at the end were exactly what I suspect it might be...........jury management. The unnecessary calling out of some people rubbed some the wrong way and that resonated. He also let people go to jury thinking that he was not behind any of the moves that probably would have put him over the top. We have to remember that WE know some of those things, but if the jury members go to the jury house without that knowledge, then they can't vote on that aspect of his game.

For instance, his GB message to Day. He led her to believe that it was a blindside to him as much as it was to her. Day even said that roundtable that Nicole was Gepetto and the boys were Pinocchio So in other words she was under the impression that Nicole was controlling quite a bit.

Paul let Pauiie believe that the idea to put him up with Corey and send Paulie packing was Victor's plan, not his. In his GB message he could easily have said something about wanting to stay loyal to the final 2 they had, but when he became aware of his double dealings, he knew he had to go and he put Victor up to doing it or something to that effect. Zak is basically a Paulie drone so that is 2 missed votes right there. Nat is another one that he basically shit on before she left. He had a pretty good handle on what kind of person Nat was and I believe if he had done a GB message to her that said that she was just a much bigger threat than James and she had to go, it would have given her some of the "respect" she questioned him about at the end of the game and he probably would have actually won her vote. I think Nicole won her vote by talking about Nat as the HOH that she had to strategically talk to instead of saying it was James and her or something like that.

I realize they may not get to see all the GB messages, but there is also eviction day when you can pull them aside with a quick comment.............Sorry Day, I did all I could, but it would blow up my game to keep you because you are a target to too many people.............sorry Paulie, you had too many side alliances and I just couldn't stick with you.............Nat you ended up being too smart and a too big of a threat to keep in the game, etc.

Ctown, I know you are really hating this, but like I said before if you don't own the moves you make you can't expect to get credit for them later. You stated on that predictions thread that Paul realized when Victor left he was in trouble and had to tone it down and play a floater type game. Basically he became Paulie's lackey at that point. When Victor returned, then he because more aggressive and forceful knowing that Victor was a bigger target in front of him. Many of the things you pointed out that Paul did, Nicole did too. They both let other people take out threats to their own game. They were able to get people to send THEIR threats out of the game. They turned it up and won comps when they were in trouble and played the game strategically instead of emotionally.

Michelle can be proud of herself now.................she made BB history. She is the only jury member to have a meltdown at the round table. The look on Dr. Will's face said it all. I loved it when Victor even defended Nicole's decision to take out Mich as being strategic and not emotional. I also loved it when Nicole came out of the house as the winner and Mich's face was that of someone who just vomited in their mouth.

And Ctown, I guess your obsession with the pre-game alliance turned out to be false after all. When Nicole said the other day that she was going to take James instead of Paul because she could beat him she even stated.....................my heart is saying to take Paul, but my head is saying to take James. If she were about to shit on her final 2 PRE-GAME alliance member, wouldn't it have been the other way around? And James ended up voting for Paul, so what does that say about this SOLID final 2 alliance?

neener neener neener neener
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chap5788
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PostSubject: Re: Final thoughts   Thu Sep 22, 2016 5:26 am

And one more thing.....

At the roundtable, Bridgette said the failure in Nicole's game was that some of the girls came to the jury very bitter against her. So why is that a bad thing, because she outplayed the other girls? Because she was smart enough to realize that aligning with this cast of girls was a no-win situation? This tells me that her vote was not just based on game play, but also because Nicole wasn't all about "girl power" in the game.
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chap5788
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PostSubject: Re: Final thoughts   Thu Sep 22, 2016 5:34 am

And another thing.......

I was so happy to see Victor win AFP too. I guess production was able to skew those results. They said he ran away with it with over 4 million votes.
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PostSubject: Re: Final thoughts   Thu Sep 22, 2016 1:16 pm

Paul a big mistake not taking lying James...
You would won easy against him I think...
I don't think squeaky should won but BB wanted
her to win....
given some of the help they gave her...


I also find it interesting Chenbot                       Question
was able to pick out the keys so that it
was 4 to 4 then the tie breaker...

Oh well on to survivor....
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PostSubject: Re: Final thoughts   Thu Sep 22, 2016 2:40 pm

chap5788 wrote:
 

And Ctown, I guess your obsession with the pre-game alliance turned out to be false after all.  When Nicole said the other day that she was going to take James instead of Paul because she could beat him she even stated.....................my heart is saying to take Paul, but my head is saying to take James.  If she were about to shit on her final 2 PRE-GAME alliance member, wouldn't it have been the other way around?  And James ended up voting for Paul, so what does that say about this SOLID final 2 alliance?

Let me address this first before I get onto my final thoughts. Wht she says is one thing, what she means is something completely different. In fact that is the same speech she gave in post show interviews so that right there tells you it was rehearsed. If she had won final HoH there is no doubt in my mind she would have taken James. Now as far as James voting for Paul, it was plain and simple. Did you happen to notice the last thing Paul said to James before evicted him. That he stabbed him in the back again by plotting against him with Nicole? Where do you think Paul got this information from? Pablo? There was only one other person in the house and that was Nicole, who obviously told Paul everything that James said. James felt betrayed by that action and with being betrayed, he took it out on her by voting against her. It's as simple as that.

OK, on to the show. This was one of the worst finales in recent history. I'm not saying that because I don't like the winner, I just didn't like the whole layout of the show. What was the point of bringing back any of the perjury HG's if you aren't going to ask any questions and such? What happened to the part of the show where after votes are cast they divulge certain secrets people were holding throughout the game, like Paul owning a clothing store? Where was the part where they catch the HG's up on any current events so we can see their reactions? It's not like there is nothing going on in the world and even if they don't want to get into politics, the Olympics is a pretty good thing to talk about. This is what happens when you don't show the first part of HoH on the show leading up to the finale. Instead they decided to only show the start of it.

The jury segment really needs to go away as it offers absolutely nothing and is 100% scripted. In case you weren't aware, Dr Will doesn't even watch Big Brother any more. Notice in interviews about the jury segment how noncommittal he is on who played the best and all that crap.

The results. Paul got screwed, plain and simple. But I can't feel sorry for him for a couple of reasons. For starters, his rich spoiled mother doesn't need him to buy her a new Bentley if he had one (That's just a small silver lining, it wouldn't have even been an afterthought if he had one). The main reason I can't feel sorry for him is that he did it to himself. Had he taken James, it's a slam dunk win. He played the best game all season long, zigging when he should be zigging and sagging when he should be sagging. Right up until the very end when he made the fatal mistake of evicting James.

Natalie goes down as the most bitter juror of the season. In the questions she told Paul that he played the best game but he was mean and why should she vote for him. He responded that he was being himself and told everyone he is loud and obnoxious and despite that he didn't lay low at all and played the game 24/7 and Natalie still voted against Paul. While Michelle was also bitter against Nicole at least she got it right as far as gameplay goes. And Day ends up being the swing vote. This is the problem with a juror being out of the game for 8 weeks before casting a vote. She has no idea what happened in that house and has to go on heresay from other people. What they really need to do with jury is after being evicted, they go into sequester and give them the live feeds so they can watch. Only then will they really know what is going on in the house. In additional to the live feeds they get to see the nom and veto ceremonies but not the actual show since it's always edited in favor of someone. This would really add to gameplay because the HG's would have to be aware of how much they bad talk someone after they leave the house. We see the badmouthing every year.

What I found really funny in the final hoh comp was how instead of playing the video and stopping it, Julie just read the entire statement and then they played the video. Not sure if anyone caught it but this is due to the fact of collusion between Corey and Nicole. They had a signal set up where Corey was going to speak a certain way to tip her off if he would do a joke finish or a serious one.

Nitewings, don't read too much into the vote being ties with the way Julie pulled the keys, they were simply pulled in the reverse order of the order they voted. There is nothing sinister there and I highly doubt they were told who to vote for.

As much as we all love BB, I'm glad this trainwreck of a season is over and while I was getting excited for BBOTT, now not so much. They are going to bring back Jozea or Jason? Lets face it, with it being a fan vote Jason is the one that will be playing (And don't be surprised if he wins). So lets take a look at this, last year, Les Moonves, the President of CBS stated that BB17 was the worst cast they ever had. So what does CBS do, in the next 2 installments, they bring back 3 of the players from that season. It makes no sense to me. I had optimistic hopes for the fall season but they are dwindling, it's my understanding that there will be no jury, each week will be viewers voting who gets evicted and who the winner will be (Jason). Just another example of BB taking a decent idea and completely destroying it.
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ctown28
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PostSubject: Re: Final thoughts   Thu Sep 22, 2016 2:43 pm

Oh yeah, I was also happy to see Victor win AFP but still wish they would do away with the thing. I don't know what was better, seeing Frankies face when he lost last year or James face this year.

When Julie announced the results and stated with over 4 million votes, I realized something. That is why they allow people to vote 20 times a day. It's so they can use an inflated number to announce who the winner is and give the impression that more people are voting than there actually are.
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chap5788
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PostSubject: Re: Final thoughts   Thu Sep 22, 2016 3:52 pm

Ctown, I agree with you 100% on the format. It really sucked. They could have easily got rid of that Friday episode of the walk down memory lane and showed part 1 of the HOH comp, but they delayed even starting the comp that final eviction night. I would have loved to hear some of the non-jury evictees give their perspective on what they have seen since being out of the house. Basically there was very little discussion at all.

As far as Nicole's comments being rehearsed, of course they were. Her and Paul spent the last few days rehearsing their respective speeches and comments for the show. Anyone in their position would have done the same thing. But when she made the statement about her heart saying Paul and her head saying James was what I believe was her true thoughts. Nicole throughout the season would camera talk and "talk to her mom" just to get her thoughts and strategies out for her own reflection. What she was saying was the emotional move would be to take Paul, but the smart move would have been to take James.

I also don't think Nat's decision was just bitterness. She said they all believed that Paul played the game very well (she didn't say his game was the best), but then asked why she should vote for him when he didn't give respect to her. I believe she was saying that Paul took the game to a personal level that was not necessary. Remember she disliked Nicole just about as much as she did Paul, but she said that Nicole always kept the talking to game and strategy where Paul made things personal. I believe she voted on that aspect as much as anything else. I also think she really wanted a girl to win the season which is a stupid reason, but I believe it did come into play for her.

I find it interesting that you pointed out Nat and Mich being bitter jurors, but you didn't say anything about Bridge. Her comment at the roundtable about Nicole's "failure" in her game was that several of the girls went to jury bitter about her was very telling. In other words she should have used her strategies to play with the girls instead, which is also stupid.

I watched Jeff interview Julie in the backyard and she said she thought Paul was going to win, but she thought that Nicole put herself over the top with the question and answers portion because Paul was unapologetic for the personal aspects of the game. Sure he owned his own shit, but I think it would have gone a long way if he had been a bit more humble in those answers.

And the "collusion" as you call it was simply Nicole asking Corey if he would try to answer funny or serious to the question so I don't think they revamped the entire segment simply because of that, especially since Nicole was supposed to be the "chosen one" to win the comp according to many people on this forum. I mean it was 1 question out of 8 and it happened to be the one that she would get right being closer to him than other people. I think not showing the clip and stopping it made this final HOH much harder anyway because they didn't get to see the faces of the people which sometimes can show a lot.

Now for the BBOTT, I am excited that Jason will get to play again even if the game ends up being lame as it appears it just might be. I mean if America is voting to send the people out each week it will be a popularity contest more than anything else and I don't think that bodes very well for Jason (if he is the one voted to go back in the house). His wit and humor are a bit different and some people just don't get it like some of us who were fans of him before.
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PostSubject: Re: Final thoughts   Thu Sep 22, 2016 4:10 pm

To me the questions and speech just proved how unnecessary it is. I thought Paul nailed each and every one of them and Nicole stumbled quite a bit. I can't think of a single person who may have been on the fence and the answers and speeches swayed their vote. People know who they are voting for going in. But a lot of it still makes no sense. Before announcing to the jurors James was evicted Julie asked Day who she wants to see, she said it better not be Paul, then she turns around and votes for Nicole. You can't tell me that Nicole swayed her with her answers and speech because a lot of them were horrible. In Day's case I think a lot of it was wanting a girl to win combined with wanting a vet to win.

This is the 3rd time now that there has been a mixed cast of Vets and newbies and the 3rd time that a vet has made it to final 2. BB13 was Rachel, BB14 was Dan and now Nicole.

As far as the rigging thing for final HoH, CBS was able to afford to not slant it toward Nicole and allow her an advantage because it was obvious Paul was taking her. All week in his practice speeches he was referring to Nicole sitting next to him and not James. That was the tell tale sign.

Even though I don't like her, congrats to Nicole and I hope to never see you in the BB house again. The question for her now that she won $500,000 is how much longer will Corey delay in breaking up with her?
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PostSubject: Re: Final thoughts   Thu Sep 22, 2016 7:05 pm

I think Day said she didn't want Paul to come out because she didn't want James to be at the end. Every time someone came to the jury and talked about James went out first in the comp or James did what he was told, etc., she rolled her eyes and was visibly pissed that he was playing scared. She was advocating for Nicole at the round table pretty hard so I agree that her mind was pretty made up. But, I think Paul DID have a chance to sway Nat or Day's vote if he had been humble when Nat asked her question about the personal stuff. And yes Paul was more articulate with his talking points, but I think Nicole's stumbling over her words made it a bit more realistic.

No doubt it was VERY apparent that Paul was taking Nicole if he won the final, but you kept saying that the game was slanted toward Nicole and James to the end, so why wouldn't they want her to win the final HOH and take James, then production would have accomplished their goal? neener

I would have thought Corey would have pretty much put Nicole in the friend zone at the wrap party, but I think he developed more feelings in the last few weeks than he is willing to admit to. He sure seemed a bit touchy feely after she came out of the house and I don't think the money means that much to him. Hearing him talk about his lifestyle and that of his parents, I don't believe that it meant that much to him. Don't get me wrong, he definitely wanted to win, but I think it was the actual win rather than the prize. I don't know how many times he said "$500,000 isn't really that much money when you think about it" and I would just cringe at that because that is life changing money to most people. Paul would say the same thing as well and we KNOW his family is definitely loaded. That being said, Corey and Nicole will never be a long-lasting relationship other than very good friends in my opinion.
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PostSubject: Re: Final thoughts   Thu Sep 22, 2016 9:03 pm

You aren't alone I was hoping for Nicole to win. I wouldn't have minded if Paul or James won though. That's a first for me to not hate at least half of the final 4.I wasn't thrilled about the way the house in general played the game though. I like it better when there are two clear groups and aren't trying to pretend they're buddies. I miss the epic fights. And no more crybabies, christ.
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PostSubject: Re: Final thoughts   Thu Sep 22, 2016 10:03 pm

Someone just made an excellent point on Twitter. Victor won AFP but production will have us believe that he did not get enough votes to get a single care package. Hmmmmmmmmm
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PostSubject: Re: Final thoughts   Fri Sep 23, 2016 3:01 am

Well, this will probably go down as one of the worst seasons. I didn't even watch the finale, saw who won on twitter and just laughed. For those of you watching the "next season", enjoy.
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PostSubject: Re: Final thoughts   Sat Sep 24, 2016 1:12 am

Wembeley wrote:
You aren't alone I was hoping for Nicole to win. I wouldn't have minded if Paul or James won though. That's a first for me to not hate at least half of the final 4.I wasn't thrilled about the way the house in general played the game though. I like it better when there are two clear groups and aren't trying to pretend they're buddies. I miss the epic fights. And no more crybabies, christ.

cheers1 clapping
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PostSubject: Re: Final thoughts   Sat Sep 24, 2016 1:14 am

ctown28 wrote:
Someone just made an excellent point on Twitter.  Victor won AFP but production will have us believe that he did not get enough votes to get a single care package.  Hmmmmmmmmm

I thought of that too, but I think it had to do with people thinking he was going to be out of the house (then came back in AGAIN) and/or probably going to be in power already that week. I think the scheduled dates of the voting screwed up the everything completely.
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PostSubject: Re: Final thoughts   Sat Sep 24, 2016 12:23 pm

chap5788 wrote:
ctown28 wrote:
Someone just made an excellent point on Twitter.  Victor won AFP but production will have us believe that he did not get enough votes to get a single care package.  Hmmmmmmmmm

I thought of that too, but I think it had to do with people thinking he was going to be out of the house (then came back in AGAIN) and/or probably going to be in power already that week.  I think the scheduled dates of the voting screwed up the everything completely.

It makes no sense, the week Corey won, Victor couldn't have been HOH as he was outgoing.  There is no way Corey gets more votes than Victor leading into that week no matter how much the votes are split.  Could only vote for Paul, Victor or Corey.  Corey is not even in top 3 of AFP yet he wins the care package.es  I don't buy it
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PostSubject: Re: Final thoughts   Sat Sep 24, 2016 5:03 pm

ctown28 wrote:
Natalie goes down as the most bitter juror of the season.  


Although I do agree that Natalie was a bitter juror, I think the most bitter juror award goes to Michelle. Even during the backyard interviews she was bragging how she didn't even congratulate or hug Nicole. The show is done... Get over it!
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PostSubject: Re: Final thoughts   Sat Sep 24, 2016 8:35 pm

KeenLizzy wrote:
ctown28 wrote:
Natalie goes down as the most bitter juror of the season.  


Although I do agree that Natalie was a bitter juror, I think the most bitter juror award goes to Michelle. Even during the backyard interviews she was bragging how she didn't even congratulate or hug Nicole. The show is done... Get over it!


Michelle gets a free pass because she voted for who I wanted to win!
neener
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