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chap5788
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PostSubject: Final 4 veto   Wed Sep 16, 2015 1:33 am

As expected, Vanessa won the final 4 veto. She was just asking Steve about speeches and so forth and it was revealed that she won it. Apparently, Jmac and Vanessa were Steve's noms (not like it matters). So, Vanessa will be choosing between Jmac and Steve to be evicted tomorrow night.
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PostSubject: Re: Final 4 veto   Wed Sep 16, 2015 2:15 am

chap5788 wrote:
As expected, Vanessa won the final 4 veto.  She was just asking Steve about speeches and so forth and it was revealed that she won it.  Apparently, Jmac and Vanessa were Steve's noms (not like it matters).  So, Vanessa will be choosing between Jmac and Steve to be evicted tomorrow night.

Allow me to correct you, she will be deciding Jmac or Liz.
Steve is HoH
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PostSubject: Re: Final 4 veto   Wed Sep 16, 2015 2:29 am

ctown28 wrote:
chap5788 wrote:
As expected, Vanessa won the final 4 veto.  She was just asking Steve about speeches and so forth and it was revealed that she won it.  Apparently, Jmac and Vanessa were Steve's noms (not like it matters).  So, Vanessa will be choosing between Jmac and Steve to be evicted tomorrow night.

Allow me to correct you, she will be deciding Jmac or Liz.  
Steve is HoH

Boy I am really on top of it tonight. I do actually know that the choices are Jmac and Liz, but somehow I typed Steve instead!
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PostSubject: Re: Final 4 veto   Wed Sep 16, 2015 2:32 am

Answer was 3600 for John and 610 for Steve. Answer was 2000. Steve was closest. Julia never said anything about being over.

How could Steve be closest if the correct answer was 2000 and John's answer was 3600. It had to be that John went over.
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PostSubject: Re: Final 4 veto   Wed Sep 16, 2015 2:45 am

ctown28 wrote:
Answer was 3600 for John and 610 for Steve. Answer was 2000. Steve was closest. Julia never said anything about being over.

How could Steve be closest if the correct answer was 2000 and John's answer was 3600. It had to be that John went over.

The answer was 2842 seconds and Julie did say before the question that the person who was closest without going over, so that is why Steve won the comp. He said afterward that he forgot a zero and meant to guess 6000. I still find it odd that he would be that far off (with either guess) just because of his weird propensity to know statistics and things. He told Vanessa tonight that they used 220 eggs in the egg competition. Who the hell would know that but would be that far off on how long the comp took. Just seems very weird to me.
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PostSubject: Re: Final 4 veto   Wed Sep 16, 2015 3:50 am

So what is the best play for Vanessa at this point? I can see pros and cons to both choices.

Jmac:

Pros to evicting him:
1. He will hands down win the first part (endurance) of the HOH against anyone left in the house which puts him in the final.
2. He did very well in the HOH comp tonight filling in the blank in the statements which tells me he might do well in the part 3 of the final HOH comp if it is those juror statements as it has been in the past.
3. He is quite unpredictable and if he makes a deal with Vanessa (you KNOW she ask for a deal from both Liz and Jmac for keeping either of them), he is more likely to break it because he has talked about breaking deals a lot to her in the past couple of weeks.
4. There is a bigger chance of Steve choosing Jmac over Vanessa rather than Liz over Vanessa in the final.

Pros to keeping him:
1. Increases Vanessa's chances of possibly winning the first part of the HOH.
2. Probably easier to beat sitting next to him in the final 2.
3. He does not articulate things well, so his final speech isn't going to be swaying any votes.

Liz:

Pros to evicting her:
1. Liz has 2 automatic votes in the finals no matter what, so it would only take 3 more people to vote on personal level for Liz to win in the final 2.
2. If the material things she promised Austwins come into play she could gain 3 votes from the jury if Liz is there.

Pros to keeping her:
1. She is easier to beat than Jmac in part 1 (endurance) of the HOH comp.
2. She is more likely to choose Vanessa over Steve if she ends up being the one choosing at the end.
3. She loses 2 votes in jury, but it is better than possibly losing 3 votes if Liz goes to jury bitter because Vanessa scumbagged both her and Austin.

With all this being said, I believe that Vanessa will actually keep Liz in the game. Liz is more likely to keep a deal she makes with Vanessa, which always appeals to Vanessa (the art of the deal and the incentive to keep that deal). Because Vanessa is such a fan of integrity and loyalty, this is her chance to not scumbag someone she has been working with for much of the game, otherwise it kind of looks like a personal thing against Austin and Liz both.
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PostSubject: Re: Final 4 veto   Wed Sep 16, 2015 4:45 am

As my husband and I were watching Steve win HOH, I turned to him and told him that it didn't matter who Steve put up on the block, that the winner of the veto would be determining who would go to F3. And I told him it would probably be Vanessa who would win and she'd vote to evict Johnny.

I was hoping I'd be wrong, but now it seems it's really happening!  I just don't see Vanessa taking John over Liz. She's had this lady boner for the twins since the beginning,  so I just think that she's going to take her for sure, and maybe all the way.

And this is where maybe Johnny messed up by letting Vanessa evict Austin. Because John could've easily beat Liz and Austin at that True and False. But you never know... Maybe Liz really just was too overwhelmed to win HOH since Austin was evicted, but had Austin stayed maybe she would've done better and beat Johnny.

I guess we'll never know. But I just think that Johnny will be walking out that door tomorrow Sad-Cry  I hope I'm wrong.

But you better believe I'm going to be crossing my fingers and toes and begging the BB gods to please let Johnny stay and evict Liz. It's time she get to steppin' Begging
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PostSubject: Re: Final 4 veto   Wed Sep 16, 2015 5:00 am

Wow, you are never going to believe this one. Steve actually THREW the final 4 veto comp! He was bawling to the camera and his teddy bear in the HOH room tonight saying he let his family down because he gave the game away today by throwing that veto to Vanessa. He kept ranting that he wanted to win that veto to make sure Vanessa would go home this week and leave him in the final 3 with Jmac and Liz. He predicted that Jmac would have won round 1, he would win round 2 and it would not have mattered who won the final part because he and Jmac would definitely had taken each other. He is also confident he would have won in votes against Jmac.

He said he gave away the game today in that veto. In one instance he said something about Vanessa asking him to throw it to her and he did, and then another time he said he chickened out about winning the veto and using it to secure Vanessa's eviction tomorrow. Now he is sure she will keep Liz and he doesn't think he can beat either Liz or Vanessa in the final 2.

All I can say is WOW! Throwing a final 4 veto to have complete control of the game? Stupid doesn't even cover it. I had gained so much respect for Steve in making some moves recently and scheming to work his agenda, but then this happened and all that respect went out the window. Of course jury members might not find out he threw it and he might have a chance against Liz in the final 2, but again, there are no words for the stupidity he displayed with this bonehead move!
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PostSubject: Re: Final 4 veto   Wed Sep 16, 2015 11:34 am

chap5788 wrote:
Wow, you are never going to believe this one.  Steve actually THREW the final 4 veto comp!  He was bawling to the camera and his teddy bear in the HOH room tonight saying he let his family down because he gave the game away today by throwing that veto to Vanessa.  He kept ranting that he wanted to win that veto to make sure Vanessa would go home this week and leave him in the final 3 with Jmac and Liz.  He predicted that Jmac would have won round 1, he would win round 2 and it would not have mattered who won the final part because he and Jmac would definitely had taken each other.  He is also confident he would have won in votes against Jmac.  

He said he gave away the game today in that veto.  In one instance he said something about Vanessa asking him to throw it to her and he did, and then another time he said he chickened out about winning the veto and using it to secure Vanessa's eviction tomorrow.  Now he is sure she will keep Liz and he doesn't think he can beat either Liz or Vanessa in the final 2.

All I can say is WOW!  Throwing a final 4 veto to have complete control of the game?  Stupid doesn't even cover it.  I had gained so much respect for Steve in making some moves recently and scheming to work his agenda, but then this happened and all that respect went out the window.  Of course jury members might not find out he threw it and he might have a chance against Liz in the final 2, but again, there are no words for the stupidity he displayed with this bonehead move!

I saw that as well, that is a $450,000 mistake on his part. Why you would throw a comp this late in the game makes absolutely no sense at all. I'm pretty sure JMac will be going tonight, which is the right move. Final HoH is anyone's game
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PostSubject: Re: Final 4 veto   Wed Sep 16, 2015 11:43 am

KeenLizzy wrote:
As my husband and I were watching Steve win HOH, I turned to him and told him that it didn't matter who Steve put up on the block, that the winner of the veto would be determining who would go to F3. And I told him it would probably be Vanessa who would win and she'd vote to evict Johnny.

I was hoping I'd be wrong, but now it seems it's really happening!  I just don't see Vanessa taking John over Liz. She's had this lady boner for the twins since the beginning,  so I just think that she's going to take her for sure, and maybe all the way.

And this is where maybe Johnny messed up by letting Vanessa evict Austin. Because John could've easily beat Liz and Austin at that True and False. But you never know... Maybe Liz really just was too overwhelmed to win HOH since Austin was evicted, but had Austin stayed maybe she would've done better and beat Johnny.

I guess we'll never know. But I just think that Johnny will be walking out that door tomorrow Sad-Cry  I hope I'm wrong.

But you better believe I'm going to be crossing my fingers and toes and begging the BB gods to please let Johnny stay and evict Liz. It's time she get to steppin' Begging



I am crossing everything I can in hopes that Lizbitch goes home!

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PostSubject: Re: Final 4 veto   Wed Sep 16, 2015 12:11 pm

ctown28 wrote:
chap5788 wrote:
Wow, you are never going to believe this one.  Steve actually THREW the final 4 veto comp!  He was bawling to the camera and his teddy bear in the HOH room tonight saying he let his family down because he gave the game away today by throwing that veto to Vanessa.  He kept ranting that he wanted to win that veto to make sure Vanessa would go home this week and leave him in the final 3 with Jmac and Liz.  He predicted that Jmac would have won round 1, he would win round 2 and it would not have mattered who won the final part because he and Jmac would definitely had taken each other.  He is also confident he would have won in votes against Jmac.  

He said he gave away the game today in that veto.  In one instance he said something about Vanessa asking him to throw it to her and he did, and then another time he said he chickened out about winning the veto and using it to secure Vanessa's eviction tomorrow.  Now he is sure she will keep Liz and he doesn't think he can beat either Liz or Vanessa in the final 2.

All I can say is WOW!  Throwing a final 4 veto to have complete control of the game?  Stupid doesn't even cover it.  I had gained so much respect for Steve in making some moves recently and scheming to work his agenda, but then this happened and all that respect went out the window.  Of course jury members might not find out he threw it and he might have a chance against Liz in the final 2, but again, there are no words for the stupidity he displayed with this bonehead move!

I saw that as well, that is a $450,000 mistake on his part.  Why you would throw a comp this late in the game makes absolutely no sense at all.  I'm pretty sure JMac will be going tonight, which is the right move.  Final HoH is anyone's game

I agree with you. I can't believe he could actually be that stupid! His only hope now is to some how convince Vanessa that sending Liz home would be the better option, but if he pushes that she will definitely go the other way. I think he was trying very hard to manipulate her last night without being too obvious when they were talking last night (before his meltdown about throwing the veto), but it seemed that the more they talked, the more sure she became of keeping Liz in the game.

Steve has no chance against Vanessa in the final round. He doesn't believe he has a chance against Liz either, but I am not so sure. If he wins the final HOH and sends Vanessa out the door, I believe he actually would win against Liz. His move against Austwins will look good on his resume for some of he jury members. Of course he starts with 2 votes against him (Austin/Julia), but I can see him getting votes from Becky, Shelli, Jackie, James, and Jmac quite easily if he is sitting next to Liz. Vanessa says she will vote on game play and if she does, she would vote for Steve knowing how much input he had in many of the decisions she made in the house. But, I honestly can see her being very bitter and getting back on that loyalty pedestal again and thinking it is a scumbag move even though she did the same thing to Austin. I can see her saying she had less loyalty to Austin because he threw their final 2 deal away when he fell in love with Liz.

Anyway, I think he can still salvage the game for himself if he wins that final HOH and sends Vanessa out, but judging from the fact that he couldn't gather the courage to not throw the final 4 veto and face sending her home then, I am not sure he will have the guts to do it at the final 3 either. It really is too bad because he really came on and played very well in the last few weeks only to throw it away at the end.
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PostSubject: Re: Final 4 veto   Wed Sep 16, 2015 12:41 pm

Thinking about this whole scenario, I think Vanessa should send Liz out the door. If she goes to F2 with Liz, that is 2 guaranteed votes against herself as Austin and Julia will vote Liz. If she goes with Steve or JMac, it's a toss up and a gamble over if they will be bitter or not.

Look at it this way, who does she have a better chance against, Liz or JMac (Let's leave Steve out of it since he's not an option to evict). Liz has won multiple HoH's and has not thrown anything, JMac has also already been evicted. I know many people don't agree, but the fact that he's already been evicted plays a huge role for me
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PostSubject: Re: Final 4 veto   Wed Sep 16, 2015 1:27 pm

ctown28 wrote:
Thinking about this whole scenario, I think Vanessa should send Liz out the door.  If she goes to F2 with Liz, that is 2 guaranteed votes against herself as Austin and Julia will vote Liz.  If she goes with Steve or JMac, it's a toss up and a gamble over if they will be bitter or not.

Look at it this way, who does she have a better chance against, Liz or JMac (Let's leave Steve out of it since he's not an option to evict).  Liz has won multiple HoH's and has not thrown anything, JMac has also already been evicted.  I know many people don't agree, but the fact that he's already been evicted plays a huge role for me

Actually, Vanessa and Steve discussed Jmac last night and the fact that he had already been evicted, so you are not alone in this thought process. Vanessa asked Steve if that was a big deal and he said Jmac is on his second leg and Liz is not. She said that would be "a carrot in her favor." I assume this to mean she is talking about with the jury.

There are many ways to look at it and pros and cons to both sides. It is better for Steve if Liz goes tonight, but I am not sure if it is for Vanessa.

Jmac or Liz either one could potentially pull off winning 2 parts of the final HOH to win the right to choose who they sit next to. Either of them are a favorite in the endurance part (Vanessa thinks she can beat Liz, but I am not so sure). The final one is usually kind of a crap shoot if it is jury questions. Steve did well in the last HOH with those quotes, but those were quotes he was actually present and heard himself for the most part. He remembers weird details like that. These are going to be random subject questions, so really it could go either way.

If Jmac stays and pulls off that final HOH, he will absolutely take Steve to the final 2. Sure he tells Vanessa he wants to take her because everyone hates her, but in reality Becky told him that she would vote for Vanessa because she is so good at manipulating and that resonates with him. If Liz stays and pulls off that final HOH, she will take Vanessa. She has this weird obsession with a girl winning this season first of all and she will not want Steve in the final solely because he sent Julia out of the house.

Liz has those 2 guaranteed votes, which is tough when you only need 5 to win. But, if Vanessa "scumbags" Liz after just doing that to Austin, I believe she could actually lose 3 votes in jury (unless those promises of the material shit and the Vegas trip come into play with them). This makes the road even tougher.

If I were in her position, I would send Jmac out the door. There is too much potential that Steve would choose Jmac over Vanessa if he wins the final and vice versa. If she keeps Liz, Vanessa will be in the final 2 unless Steve actually gathers enough courage to make his final BIG MOVE and send Vanessa packing. I think this is the best odds for her.
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PostSubject: Re: Final 4 veto   Wed Sep 16, 2015 2:29 pm

chap5788 wrote:
ctown28 wrote:
Thinking about this whole scenario, I think Vanessa should send Liz out the door.  If she goes to F2 with Liz, that is 2 guaranteed votes against herself as Austin and Julia will vote Liz.  If she goes with Steve or JMac, it's a toss up and a gamble over if they will be bitter or not.

Look at it this way, who does she have a better chance against, Liz or JMac (Let's leave Steve out of it since he's not an option to evict).  Liz has won multiple HoH's and has not thrown anything, JMac has also already been evicted.  I know many people don't agree, but the fact that he's already been evicted plays a huge role for me

Actually, Vanessa and Steve discussed Jmac last night and the fact that he had already been evicted, so you are not alone in this thought process.  Vanessa asked Steve if that was a big deal and he said Jmac is on his second leg and Liz is not.  She said that would be "a carrot in her favor."  I assume this to mean she is talking about with the jury.  

There are many ways to look at it and pros and cons to both sides.  It is better for Steve if Liz goes tonight, but I am not sure if it is for Vanessa.  

Jmac or Liz either one could potentially pull off winning 2 parts of the final HOH to win the right to choose who they sit next to.  Either of them are a favorite in the endurance part (Vanessa thinks she can beat Liz, but I am not so sure).  The final one is usually kind of a crap shoot if it is jury questions.  Steve did well in the last HOH with those quotes, but those were quotes he was actually present and heard himself for the most part.  He remembers weird details like that.  These are going to be random subject questions, so really it could go either way.  

If Jmac stays and pulls off that final HOH, he will absolutely take Steve to the final 2.  Sure he tells Vanessa he wants to take her because everyone hates her, but in reality Becky told him that she would vote for Vanessa because she is so good at manipulating and that resonates with him.  If Liz stays and pulls off that final HOH, she will take Vanessa.  She has this weird obsession with a girl winning this season first of all and she will not want Steve in the final solely because he sent Julia out of the house.

Liz has those 2 guaranteed votes, which is tough when you only need 5 to win.  But, if Vanessa "scumbags" Liz after just doing that to Austin, I believe she could actually lose 3 votes in jury (unless those promises of the material shit and the Vegas trip come into play with them).  This makes the road even tougher.

If I were in her position, I would send Jmac out the door.  There is too much potential that Steve would choose Jmac over Vanessa if he wins the final and vice versa.  If she keeps Liz, Vanessa will be in the final 2 unless Steve actually gathers enough courage to make his final BIG MOVE and send Vanessa packing.  I think this is the best odds for her.

At this point of the game, you can't put too much weight on to who would take you to Final 2. Everyone gets to play so everyone is in control of their own destiny. I'm not saying to not put any weight on it at all, but jury management is the name of the game right now. That's where risk vs reward comes into play. You keep Liz, you are automatically giving up 2 votes, no ifs ands or buts about it. You get rid of her, you are taking a gamble that you may be losing yet a 3rd vote, but that's not an absolute like keeping her and giving up 2 votes is. Yes, Austin told Vanessa she won't have any votes, but that's right after being blindsided. If the jury truly is bitter, then she has no chance anyhow.

Now I can see your point about John or Steve would probably take each other, and that is 100% her fault for putting them both on the block last week when she should've put Liztin up. But don't be so sure that Liz would take her to F2 either. She does have somewhat of a bond with Steve so it's very possible she would take Steve. If I were in that F4, Vanessa would be the last person that I take to F2 just because of the fact that she's had a say in almost every eviction. It's not like that is a big secret, everyone knows it.

In a nutshell, unless Vanessa wins Final HoH, she finishes in 3rd place
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PostSubject: Re: Final 4 veto   Wed Sep 16, 2015 4:28 pm

chap5788 wrote:
Wow, you are never going to believe this one.  Steve actually THREW the final 4 veto comp!  He was bawling to the camera and his teddy bear in the HOH room tonight saying he let his family down because he gave the game away today by throwing that veto to Vanessa.  He kept ranting that he wanted to win that veto to make sure Vanessa would go home this week and leave him in the final 3 with Jmac and Liz.  He predicted that Jmac would have won round 1, he would win round 2 and it would not have mattered who won the final part because he and Jmac would definitely had taken each other.  He is also confident he would have won in votes against Jmac.  

He said he gave away the game today in that veto.  In one instance he said something about Vanessa asking him to throw it to her and he did, and then another time he said he chickened out about winning the veto and using it to secure Vanessa's eviction tomorrow.  Now he is sure she will keep Liz and he doesn't think he can beat either Liz or Vanessa in the final 2.

All I can say is WOW!  Throwing a final 4 veto to have complete control of the game?  Stupid doesn't even cover it.  I had gained so much respect for Steve in making some moves recently and scheming to work his agenda, but then this happened and all that respect went out the window.  Of course jury members might not find out he threw it and he might have a chance against Liz in the final 2, but again, there are no words for the stupidity he displayed with this bonehead move!

Oh my gosh! Why in the world would Steve do this? All I can think of, that even makes any sense is that perhaps Steve didn't want Johnny to go to F3 and was afraid to say it out loud, because maybe in the back of his head he thinks Johnny is America's Player or something like that?? But that still doesn't mean you throw a veto at F4!! Veto in F4 means you determine who will be F3. End of story.  

I know this is very conspiracy theorist of me, but COME ON!! What the heck are production telling these people that seem to work in Vanessa's favor?? Why in the world would Steve just throw a veto like that?

Like I've said this entire season, Steve is an idiot! He's played a cowardly game and yes, stepped it up at the end, but this nonsense move here.... I have no words.

I definitely never want to see Steve back as a returning player. Actually the only one from this season that I'd like to see play again is James! Believe it or not NaNaNaNa
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PostSubject: Re: Final 4 veto   Wed Sep 16, 2015 4:46 pm

I believe it & agree on wanting to see James back.
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PostSubject: Re: Final 4 veto   Wed Sep 16, 2015 10:05 pm

KeenLizzy wrote:
chap5788 wrote:
Wow, you are never going to believe this one.  Steve actually THREW the final 4 veto comp!  He was bawling to the camera and his teddy bear in the HOH room tonight saying he let his family down because he gave the game away today by throwing that veto to Vanessa.  He kept ranting that he wanted to win that veto to make sure Vanessa would go home this week and leave him in the final 3 with Jmac and Liz.  He predicted that Jmac would have won round 1, he would win round 2 and it would not have mattered who won the final part because he and Jmac would definitely had taken each other.  He is also confident he would have won in votes against Jmac.  

He said he gave away the game today in that veto.  In one instance he said something about Vanessa asking him to throw it to her and he did, and then another time he said he chickened out about winning the veto and using it to secure Vanessa's eviction tomorrow.  Now he is sure she will keep Liz and he doesn't think he can beat either Liz or Vanessa in the final 2.

All I can say is WOW!  Throwing a final 4 veto to have complete control of the game?  Stupid doesn't even cover it.  I had gained so much respect for Steve in making some moves recently and scheming to work his agenda, but then this happened and all that respect went out the window.  Of course jury members might not find out he threw it and he might have a chance against Liz in the final 2, but again, there are no words for the stupidity he displayed with this bonehead move!

Oh my gosh! Why in the world would Steve do this? All I can think of, that even makes any sense is that perhaps Steve didn't want Johnny to go to F3 and was afraid to say it out loud, because maybe in the back of his head he thinks Johnny is America's Player or something like that?? But that still doesn't mean you throw a veto at F4!! Veto in F4 means you determine who will be F3. End of story.  

I know this is very conspiracy theorist of me, but COME ON!! What the heck are production telling these people that seem to work in Vanessa's favor?? Why in the world would Steve just throw a veto like that?

Like I've said this entire season, Steve is an idiot! He's played a cowardly game and yes, stepped it up at the end, but this nonsense move here.... I have no words.

I definitely never want to see Steve back as a returning player. Actually the only one from this season that I'd like to see play again is James! Believe it or not NaNaNaNa

I just watched the episode and I am completely and totally confused. It did not appear that Steve threw that comp and then in the DR clip he said something about how he was confused about the days on that question. But, he spent 30 minutes crying into his teddy bear in front of the camera ranting about being so stupid to have thrown that veto! I just don't get it. The only thing I can think of is that he didn't want to admit he had thrown it, hence the DR statement about the confusion and then his conscience came into play and he had to confess to his mother through the camera. I just can't see him ranting like that if he had not actually thrown it.

So assuming he did throw it, obviously it was because he was a coward and could not face sending Vanessa out the door by saving Jmac with the veto. If he couldn't manage that, there is no way he is going to be able to do it at the final 3 if he has the right to choose because it will be much more up close and personal than it would have been in the final 4. All I can say is that if he is dumb enough to take Vanessa to the final 2 (if he is the one choosing) then he deserves to lose. I believe he still has a chance to win the game if he does go through with sending her out the door, but it will not be as easy as it would have been if he had won that veto and sent her out right now.
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Final 4 veto
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