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 Can Shelli/Clay be saved

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chap5788
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PostSubject: Can Shelli/Clay be saved   Mon Aug 03, 2015 12:36 am

I really hope that Shelli leaves the house this week, but it is still fun to discuss options that may or may not be successful for them before and after the veto ceremony.

Becky told them this morning that if they go to James and right away try to use the "you made this public deal" thing, it will backfire on them badly. She explained that James does not see it as a contract because she was falling anyway and just basically blurted out before falling. Plus the fact James feels that they have not kept their word to that side of the house either, not sharing information but expecting them to share information with them, not giving them a heads up when the were being targeted, but all the while smiling in their faces. And, they had the power to save Jason last week and chose not to do it, so it shows all the things they said in the past were just plain lies.

Becky actually gave them good advice. She said to go to James and be very humble. Admit they screwed up completely. Admit they should have given Jason a heads up about what might be coming. Admit that they should have saved Jason this week obviously. Be sincere that they have made all those mistakes and they want to start over. Then make the promises of safety in the coming weeks. Point out that right now James only has Jackie and Meg playing HOH this week to keep him safe, but he could have both Shelli and Clay playing for him. Talk about protection in the double eviction and so forth. So, that is what their plan is going to be. They are also going to sell James on the fact that the comps coming up are going to be the mental comps that Steve will win hands down so they need to get him out now, and they don't want him in jury lurking around anyway.

Like I said I don't want Shelli to stay and would settle for Clay leaving, but if I were in their shoes, here is the play I would use.

They have said if both stay or only 1 stays, they want to roll with Johnny Mac (but use the 6th sense if need be). So, if that is ACTUALLY what they are planning to do, then they should come clean about EVERYTHING (well almost everything). Tell James that the week Austin and Vanessa were HOH's that they were going to be targets and they panicked and Audrey got involved and told her things they found out later were not true about James' group. In order to keep themselves off the block, they entered an alliance with Vanessa, Austin, Liz and Audrey. This is the 6-person alliance Audrey told James about. They believed Jason about the twins and knew that was going to be ANOTHER number on that side of the house, so felt they had no choice.

Tell him all the time they worked with them, they tried very hard to keep James, Jason and Meg as safe as they could without breaking their word to their alliance, but Audrey was still feeding them bullshit that they were believing and acknowledge that was stupid too. They were stuck playing between the 2 sides at that point and last week when Jason went up, there was really nothing they could do.

Then tell James, they have regretted that decision since they made it, but they were stuck. They know now Audrey was lying to them about James' group, they didn't like the way Vanessa's group were doing things and they wanted out, but couldn't find a way without blowing themselves up.

Now, what they want to do is stay in the game and roll with Meg, James, Jackie and Becky and take those others out. Tell them Vanessa didn't want Audrey to go and set up Jeff to take a fall and used James' situation to make it seem more real, but they didn't know until afterward. That is why she does these dramatic things all the time, so she can make things happen in the house she wants to see happen. Point out all of Vanessa's little double dealings and such. Then tell James that if he puts up Vanessa against Shelli, they can have the votes to send her home. Then he is still keeping his word to Austin and the twins that they would not go up and he leaves this HOH taking out a HUGE target and doesn't really have anyone targeting him right away because he made that deal with Austin and the twins. He can tell everyone that he had to go back on his word to Vanessa because he found out she was lying about some things to him and still targeting him for next week so he is putting her up to have the house decide what to do.

If the plan fails, then Vanessa, Austin and the twins are gunning for the one that remains in the house, but if Vanessa is evicted, then they are sitting pretty good because Austin and the twins are going to have to work with SOMEONE.

That is what I would spin to him and see if it sticks.
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PostSubject: Re: Can Shelli/Clay be saved   Mon Aug 03, 2015 12:52 am

The way I see it, trying to throw Steve under the bus is a huge fail. He would never buy it. The problem is that Shelli and Clay are too stubborn to see it this way. They would have to convince James to go after a bigger target, that being Vanessa, but they aren't willing to lose Vanessa either.

If you think about it, Clay going home is a good move for Shelli, she is not saddled down by him, no longer has the power couple threat and things get a little easier for her. All Clay has been for her is baggage, with him out of the way, the target gets smaller. Clay is arguably the least useful member of the 6th sense. Even Austin and Liz have won an HoH
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PostSubject: Re: Can Shelli/Clay be saved   Mon Aug 03, 2015 1:27 am

ctown28 wrote:
The way I see it, trying to throw Steve under the bus is a huge fail.  He would never buy it.  The problem is that Shelli and Clay are too stubborn to see it this way.  They would have to convince James to go after a bigger target, that being Vanessa, but they aren't willing to lose Vanessa either.

If you think about it, Clay going home is a good move for Shelli, she is not saddled down by him, no longer has the power couple threat and things get a little easier for her.  All Clay has been for her is baggage, with him out of the way, the target gets smaller.  Clay is arguably the least useful member of the 6th sense.  Even Austin and Liz have won an HoH

Looks like we are on the same page about their stupid idea of trying to sell Steve. It just will not work. Basically, they want to both stay in the house AND keep their top numbers too, which is ridiculous to even think that in the first place.

As far as your second point, I don't see it as an advantage to Shelli's game with Clay leaving. He may not win comps, BUT he is Shelli's buffer. She sends him in to smooth things over and make her look good when she "has no choice" about a nomination or needs someone was a pawn, but they will "definitely be safe" and things of that nature. He goes around and tidies up and justifies the things she does, and she won't have that any longer. She will have to be responsible for her own actions and that scares her. Plus, who is going to fall on their sword for her when Clay leaves? In a word...........nobody.
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PostSubject: Re: Can Shelli/Clay be saved   Mon Aug 03, 2015 2:14 am

So the big meeting is happening in the HOH room right now with Shelli, Clay, James and Meg. Meg was asked to be there by Shelli and Clay. They threw out the plan to push for Steve initially and are throwing everything at James for a deal. They won't put either of them up next week. If Meg or James win in the next couple of weeks, they will volunteer to go on the block together, they just need to make it to jury. They talked about gaining or losing jury votes. They are giving their word and saying their word is good. They say they are close with Vanessa, but have nobody else in the house so they would be loyal to them.

James is handling it very well, basically telling them he gave up a lot in the veto (prizes) to keep his decision. He didn't like being kept in the dark. He was not part of the planning of anything over the past few weeks and such.

I am SCREAMING AT THE TV........................tell them the only other big target he can think of to keep any blood off his hands would be to put up Vanessa and he already gave his word to her. But, she is a person who is supposedly alone in the game according to Shelli and Clay right now, so would they be okay with her as a replacement nom and see what they say. He was just saying a few minutes ago to Jackie that Shelli and Clay are a whole lot closer to Vanessa than they are letting on right now, so here is his chance to find out just HOW close.

Plus, when they stated the reason they both need to make it to jury is so they are not split up. Again, SCREAMING AT THE TV..........well if James or Meg put them up again, one will go to jury and if the other one stays until the end, they won't be together anyway. And another thing, Shelli said that if they both go to jury that is more money for them, yep you guessed it.............SCREAMING AT THE TV for Meg or James to say, "well Jason really wanted to make it to jury and since he works at a grocery store and lives in his parents' basement, I am thinking that he needed the money more than both of you and it didn't make a difference to you because you thought it was best for your game. Well, we think this is best for ours............meeting adjourned."
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PostSubject: Re: Can Shelli/Clay be saved   Mon Aug 03, 2015 2:30 am

It would be very interesting to see them throw Vanessa out there. As far as him saying he gave his word, he also gave them his word. But work it to your advantage. Don't offer Vanessa, wait for them to do it. Then after you tell that to Vanessa and she will then have no problem losing Shelli and it essentially kills any chance of that alliance trying to regroup. They know Clay is campaigning to keep Shelli, if Vanessa votes out Shelli, the trust between Clay and Vanessa is gone
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PostSubject: Re: Can Shelli/Clay be saved   Mon Aug 03, 2015 2:52 am

This is hysterical. They don't want to say Steve by name but keep pushing the selling point of no blood n his hands. This is where James should say "asshile, have you heard a word I said? What part of I don't care about blood on my hands don't you understand?"
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PostSubject: Re: Can Shelli/Clay be saved   Mon Aug 03, 2015 3:11 am

As soon as Clay and Shelli leave, James told Meg, I think we should stick to the plan
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PostSubject: Re: Can Shelli/Clay be saved   Mon Aug 03, 2015 4:07 am

ctown28 wrote:
As soon as Clay and Shelli leave, James told Meg, I think we should stick to the plan

THIS was my favorite part of the entire situation. Sure I loved watching Shelli and Clay squirm around looking for words, and I really wish James and Meg would have turned the screws a little tighter trying to get that information, but they actually played it pretty well. I did also enjoy James saying he had to think about it and basically telling them he had heard enough and they tried to stay and get a commitment, but he didn't budge on it.

I think James just may have changed his mind if they would have just come clean or at least scrubbed the surface a little bit with some information, but they wouldn't do it. James' conclusion that whoever they are protecting is important enough to them not to give up their name, so now they can give up their game for them too.

Now Meg and James are talking with Austin and Liz about moving forward. It is unfortunate that them trusting Austin is probably going to bite them in the ass, but I think they have bought themselves at least a week, but I guess we will see.

Oh, and now they are wondering about Becky's loyalties because Shelli and Clay wouldn't throw her name out either. I sure wish the James that is playing the game this week (and the one from the first week) had played all the way through instead of throwing comps to keep his word to people who were shitting on him day after day. This would have been a very different game.
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PostSubject: Re: Can Shelli/Clay be saved   Mon Aug 03, 2015 11:16 am

It was a very tricky night. Clay/Shelli didn't quite give up. Everytime someone left the HoH room, Shelli/Clay wanted to know what was going on and actually alienated themselves further from the twins.

They waited until Jackie and MEg were asleep and went to JAmes again, this time they knew they had to give some information up. They did this in the form of Austin. Revealed the rogue Audrey vote and the whole Austin/Judas persona's. James seemed to be on board with it. But keeping his head in the game, told them he needed to talk to Jackie and Meg but he feels good about it.

Jackie shot that down real quick. That if he did that to Austin now, then he's got 3 people pissed at him. Julia, Liz and Vanessa. She told him the only way it would be worth it to keep Clay and Shelli is if Vanessa goes home. She pointed out that it was the three of them together last week that actually orchestrated the whole Jason demise. Austin was campaigning because he was saving himself, something anyone would do. If anything, Clay and Shelli confirmed what they had suspected all along.

The original plan is back in full gear, but give Shelli and Clay credit, at tleast they aren't going down without a fight.
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PostSubject: Re: Can Shelli/Clay be saved   Mon Aug 03, 2015 12:11 pm

ctown28 wrote:
It was a very tricky night.  Clay/Shelli didn't quite give up.  Everytime someone left the HoH room, Shelli/Clay wanted to know what was going on and actually alienated themselves further from the twins.

They waited until Jackie and MEg were asleep and went to JAmes again, this time they knew they had to give some information up. They did this in the form of Austin.  Revealed the rogue Audrey vote and the whole Austin/Judas persona's.  James seemed to be on board with it.  But keeping his head in the game, told them he needed to talk to Jackie and Meg but he feels good about it.

Jackie shot that down real quick.  That if he did that to Austin now, then he's got 3 people pissed at him.  Julia, Liz and Vanessa.  She told him the only way it would be worth it to keep Clay and Shelli is if Vanessa goes home.  She pointed out that it was the three of them together last week that actually orchestrated the whole Jason demise.  Austin was campaigning because he was saving himself, something anyone would do.  If anything, Clay and Shelli confirmed what they had suspected all along.

The original plan is back in full gear, but give Shelli and Clay credit, at tleast they aren't going down without a fight.  

I actually thought Shelli and Clay were making some headway with James and Meg on a couple of different occasions through all those conversations, but like you said they kept their heads and didn't make decisions without talking it out without Clay and Shelli there.

What killed them is not giving up ANY information when they first talked to James and talking in circles. I mean they wouldn't even actually say Steve's name for the replacement, talked in riddles. This is what turned James off from the whole thing.

Like I said before, if they had come clean about their alliance with James and Meg and spilled the beans, Vanessa would be going up on the block. They would have the numbers to send her home and they would have the numbers going into the next eviction. Sure Austin and the twins would be targeting them next week, but that is a 3 in 11 chance that one of them wins HOH. Steve would still be a wildcard, but in this scenario, he would be throwing it all the way just as he has been doing. Liz is really the only 1 of the 3 who appears to be a comp threat to this point. If it is all out physical, Clay (with motivation like this) could probably take Austin. It would have been very easy.

I understand that Vanessa has a lot of dirt on them and has a way of manipulating conversations, but if the others were clued in to most of the information beforehand, if she starts trying to blow shit up, James could handle it the same way he did this situation with the information they gave up about the Austin and Judas thing.

Not saying I want them to stay in the game, I would love to see Shelli leave on Thursday before jury, but THIS was their play, but they wouldn't take it.
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PostSubject: Re: Can Shelli/Clay be saved   Mon Aug 03, 2015 12:28 pm

It goes to show the arrogance of Shelli and Clay, that they aren't giving up anything. I can guarantee you that if James fell for this and Shelli won HoH next week, James would find his ass right up on the block. Her excuse would be that he backed out of a deal with her the prior week.

Now anything can happen next week, but James has a lot of info moving forward. They need to confront Austin about the whole Judas thing and keep a close eye on him. Austin is exactly what James was talking about with them last night, he gravitates towards the power. (Side note: Did anyone else find it humorous how Austin was belittling Clay for giving up his game for Shelli when that is exactly what he says he would do for Liz?)

Here's the best move James made in the entire thing. Afterwards, he went and confronted Steve and let him know how his name was thrown out there as a replacement nom and told him not to worry, he's not even thinking of putting Steve up and Steve is good. The group talked earlier about once the question comps start like before and after things, Steve has it all down pat and will start winning then. This is why it's important to have Steve on your side. Let him float for now, he can be dealt with later. Use him to get at least one of your targets out of the house
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PostSubject: Re: Can Shelli/Clay be saved   Mon Aug 03, 2015 1:16 pm

ctown28 wrote:
It goes to show the arrogance of Shelli and Clay, that they aren't giving up anything.  I can guarantee you that if James fell for this and Shelli won HoH next week, James would find his ass right up on the block.  Her excuse would be that he backed out of a deal with her the prior week.

Now anything can happen next week, but James has a lot of info moving forward.  They need to confront Austin about the whole Judas thing and keep a close eye on him.  Austin is exactly what James was talking about with them last night, he gravitates towards the power.  (Side note:  Did anyone else find it humorous how Austin was belittling Clay for giving up his game for Shelli when that is exactly what he says he would do for Liz?)

Here's the best move James made in the entire thing.  Afterwards, he went and confronted Steve and let him know how his name was thrown out there as a replacement nom and told him not to worry, he's not even thinking of putting Steve up and Steve is good.  The group talked earlier about once the question comps start like before and after things, Steve has it all down pat and will start winning then.  This is why it's important to have Steve on your side.  Let him float for now, he can be dealt with later.  Use him to get at least one of your targets out of the house

Yes, I had forgotten about that, it was a very smart move. Steve is looking for friends. Just when he thinks he has found a place in the house, he is the first one everyone wants to kick to the curb. Even Vanessa who he has been the most loyal to has done it from time to time and he knows it. This small token from James could play a HUGE part going forward in the game.

On the subject of Steve, he is aware Becky is playing the middle this week and she seems to be his top target. Once the veto is played, will he possibly give this information to James to maybe plant a seed for Becky being a target in the double eviction or will he keep it for another time?
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PostSubject: Re: Can Shelli/Clay be saved   Mon Aug 03, 2015 1:35 pm

chap5788 wrote:


On the subject of Steve, he is aware Becky is playing the middle this week and she seems to be his top target.  Once the veto is played, will he possibly give this information to James to maybe plant a seed for Becky being a target in the double eviction or will he keep it for another time?

Steve is very calculated. If pressed for the information from James, I could see him giving it up. As far as him approaching James, no chance.

Here's the way Steve looks at things in the house. All of the meals, toiletries, things needed to get through are provided by Big Brother. The only thing with any value in the house is information. It is essentailly the currency of Big Brother. In this saspect, Steve is a miser and is very frugal. Not afraid to spend if he had to, but would rather keep that currency locked up safely and save it for a rainy day.

You can tell when Steve is even talking game, he is very reserved and speaks matter of factly. Does not show any emotion. Most people would have been pissed as hell to hear their name was being thrown out there, Steve held back and just thanked James for keeping him safe. He said "Can I ask what the reasoning was?" and James actually told him that it was the "no blood" reasoning, but Steve knew to leave well enough alone, he wasn't going to push if James had not told him.

The problem with that strategy, is that eventually it will make you a target. If people have to wonder and guess, you will suddenly become expendable. The Austin, twins, Meg, James group even talked last night about how they need to start going after the floaters soon
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PostSubject: Re: Can Shelli/Clay be saved   Mon Aug 03, 2015 1:47 pm

ctown28 wrote:
Steve is very calculated.  If pressed for the information from James, I could see him giving it up.  As far as him approaching James, no chance.

Here's the way Steve looks at things in the house.  All of the meals, toiletries, things needed to get through are provided by Big Brother.  The only thing with any value in the house is information.  It is essentailly the currency of Big Brother.  In this saspect, Steve is a miser and is very frugal.  Not afraid to spend if he had to, but would rather keep that currency locked up safely and save it for a rainy day.

You can tell when Steve is even talking game, he is very reserved and speaks matter of factly.  Does not show any emotion.  Most people would have been pissed as hell to hear their name was being thrown out there, Steve held back and just thanked James for keeping him safe.  He said "Can I ask what the reasoning was?" and James actually told him that it was the "no blood" reasoning, but Steve knew to leave well enough alone, he wasn't going to push if James had not told him.

The problem with that strategy, is that eventually it will make you a target.  If people have to wonder and guess, you will suddenly become expendable.  The Austin, twins, Meg, James group even talked last night about how they need to start going after the floaters soon

Very spot on analysis of Steve. Plus he mistakenly thinks that Vanessa, Austin and the twins have his back, with Austin a bit of a question mark but controlled by Vanessa. He also has a final 2 deal with Johnny Mac and I am not sure if neither of them take it seriously, one or the other does or both of them do. Their talks are very strange to me. But, they did agree last night that the 2 of them probably don't have anything to worry about until the showmances are broken up.
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PostSubject: Re: Can Shelli/Clay be saved   Mon Aug 03, 2015 5:59 pm

Thank you ctown and chap for the updates! clapping clapping clapping

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PostSubject: Re: Can Shelli/Clay be saved   Mon Aug 03, 2015 6:08 pm

capricious1 wrote:
Thank you ctown and chap for the updates! clapping clapping clapping

You are very welcome Cap. Really miss hearing from you on the boards. You and Lizzy need to make an appearance more often, especially now that we are back to more normal BB!
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